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Post by painkiller on Apr 18, 2007 4:40:15 GMT -5
ok I am relearning how to pick with just my wrist. My hand now rests in a totally different position and I feel very uncoordinated. I know in the long run, this will be much better for me because I have hit the absolute limit with my old style. Now I have read much on picking and the consensus seems to be that wrist picking is much more difficult and time consuming to learn, but worth the effort as it has many benefits. I do find however that I seem to have a "slow wrist" for lack of a better term. I just can't staccato pick. How do you teach your wrist to move back and fourth quickly? I know it sounds crazy but my elbow joint moves quicker than my wrist; and it's not that my wrist gets tired or burns. I can pick up to a certain speed and it's like a barrier I can't go beyond, yet I can pick at that barrier speed tirelessly forever, just no faster. It's pretty disconcerting actually. Any advice?
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Post by Tungus on Apr 19, 2007 19:15:37 GMT -5
Elbow picking is not good. We call that Vernon Ried syndrome. Veron is fast, but his shit is off time. Dont get me wrong... I love Living Color, and I fell into that elbow picking too.
The only thing that makes wrist picking easy is repetition/practice. Sadly, this is thruth. It takes time, but it will happen.
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Post by mattjem7vwh on Apr 20, 2007 6:18:16 GMT -5
if you want to gain speed you need to up your expectations of what you can achieve.
sometimes you'll find your technique is great.. but you'll have mental barriers that prohibit you from reaching your potential....
heres how to improve speed real quick!
THE THEORY
open up a song you know in win media player... take megadeth for example, simple riffs, but when sped up 5-10 percent.. a little harder right? but when you come back to playing it at normal speed.. it feels so much easier, because your brain has been sending signals to your fingers at a faster speed before, therefore slowing down will only ever be easier as your brain is doing less work.
THE EXCERCISE
to make this excercise more achieveable, start with a slower song... one that almost pushes your picking boundries. I'd be guessing something around 16ths at 160bpm?
start playing at a real comfortable speed, say 20-30bpm slower than your comfortable speed of 160. get it perfect and push it up 5bpm..... get it perfect again and up another 5bpm.....
keep pushing it up 5bpm until you are playing outside your normal comfort zone.... (this will occur at about 5bpm above your max speed)
to put it simply.... your comfortable speed is 160bpm start speed will be 130-140bpm worked up to 180+
the reason we start slow is to really get the lick in our heads.. get the technique right at a slow speed and it will be easier at full pace.
always push past what you can play, it doesnt matter if you cant play at that speed, but your going to try... i personaly always aim to practice at a minimum of 15-20 bpm faster than what i will play the finished product.
now... if your badass, you'll have wintersun's "beautiful death" on your computer.... hear that triple picking about a minute in? play along with this at half speed and work it up to speed over the space of a week.... (may not take you this long.... depends on your ability)
say to yourself.. ok, by the end of the week im going to play that beautiful death riff 5bpm faster than wintersun, and its going to be flawless. now.. stop reading and go practice!
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Post by pcsmall on Apr 20, 2007 22:33:26 GMT -5
matt with yet another insanely long yet informative post
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Post by mattjem7vwh on Apr 20, 2007 23:45:54 GMT -5
hehe.. no pressure to read my rants fella! I just like to make sure when someone asks a question they get the full answer thats all!
thats how I'd like my questions answered anyway.
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Post by painkiller on Apr 21, 2007 2:28:11 GMT -5
I agree matt, the thing is that for whatever reason, I actually hit a physical barrier of how fast i can move my wrist back and fourth. I really don't know why? I may be doing something wrong but I have no idea what it is. I have varied my position in all sorts of ways. I really want to get it right this time though because I have had bad habbits that have held me back for years, so when I grove a new technique, I want it to be the right one.
Now I have been reading about peoples experience with picking and some people just can't wrist pick and others pick it up very quickly. I am certainly willing to work at it but I don't want to commit 6 months to something that is not going to produce any results for me in the long run. The catch-22 is that I probably won't know if what I'm doing is going to produce results until I have done it for 6 months. *sigh*
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Post by Torkin on Apr 21, 2007 13:29:58 GMT -5
I have been playing for some time without actually thinking how I'm picking. How do I actually know if I'm doing wrist picking correctly?
I seem to use my wrist for picking mainly but my elbow is "shaking" a bit, and I can also pick at high speed without getting my right hand tired. Does this mean I am doing this correct?
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Post by Stefvorcide on Apr 21, 2007 14:01:03 GMT -5
if it doesnt hurt, it's allright i guess..
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Post by Tungus on Apr 21, 2007 16:10:50 GMT -5
I have been playing for some time without actually thinking how I'm picking. How do I actually know if I'm doing wrist picking correctly? I seem to use my wrist for picking mainly but my elbow is "shaking" a bit, and I can also pick at high speed without getting my right hand tired. Does this mean I am doing this correct? If it works for ya...... dont mess with it. Noone has the be all end all tecnique. Its what works for you is what works. I had to relearn how to play. Ill tell ya now that it sucked ass. You have what you need to do in your mind, and your fingers need to comply. All ya need to do is ask yourself: How bad do I want this? Do not practice in pain. bad bad bad. If you get addicted to practicing/playing...... Take a break. Go see a movie w/ your gf (shed prolly like it too and give ya some ass). Ive ruined a few relationships over 6 strings. If you have confidence in yourself and your playing..............no problem. Just do what you know best.
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Post by mattjem7vwh on Apr 22, 2007 6:41:41 GMT -5
I agree matt, the thing is that for whatever reason, I actually hit a physical barrier of how fast i can move my wrist back and fourth. I really don't know why? I may be doing something wrong but I have no idea what it is. I have varied my position in all sorts of ways. I know what you mean about a physical limit.. but what im trying to explain is that the physical side of guitar playing is all in your head. you need to get your head around being able to play that fast. you've just told me that "I actually hit a physical barrier of how fast i can move my wrist back and fourth. " therefore, subconciously you actually believe that you cannot move your wrist any faster, which is not true. technically a muscle can move faster than the eye... eg, humming birds wings, dont look like theyre moving but they are, just faster than the eye can process. heres what I need you to do, first, try picking with just your thumb and index finger (forget your wrist, let it move how it wants to) pick one string, and alternate pick for 10 mins. heres the movement that you want to achieve... you use your thumb on the downpicks to push the pick into the string you use your finger on the up picks to pull the thumb back into its original position. these movements are all very small and take practice. now your warm, there are two types of movement going on when you play guitar, firstly there is finger and thumb movement which is used to pick the strings... secondly, wrist movement, which should only really be used to move from string to string. an experianced player will find that his wrist is realxed and only moves because of the momentum from the fingers. - THIS IS THE WRIST MOVEMENT WE WANT. he's concentrating on the movement of his fingers, and therefore the wrist is following. what i think could be your main problem is that you've misinterpreted the term wrist picking. what you want to achieve is more of a "twitch" than an actuall full movement.. same with your fingers. just make your hand twitch in the direction you wish to pick. try the excercise i gave you in the first post... i know it sounds like bullshit but it really does work if you give it your all.
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Post by painkiller on Apr 22, 2007 22:28:28 GMT -5
Wow thanks matt, awsome advice! I'm going to start that exercise right now. I'll film my progress.
If I lived near you, I'd take lessons from you.
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Post by mattjem7vwh on Apr 23, 2007 2:55:57 GMT -5
no problem fella, always happy to help! if you want any further advice feel free to send a pm.
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Post by painkiller on Apr 23, 2007 18:42:00 GMT -5
ok I think I figured out something I was doing wrong and I believe that using a floating hand technique will cure it. When I would play fast and staccato pick, I noticed that I would have a tendancy to press my palm into the strings. This is a byproduct of tension. By doing this, it was very diffficult to switch strings or play fast on the low E. I am now working on resting my picking hand very very gently on the strings if at all, and not using any of my fingers as anchors. This type of playing may not work for everyone, but I thing it's something that I need to practice in order to undo my bad habbits.
Incidently matt, is the type of picking you described with the thumb joint what people refer to as "circular picking?"
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Post by zzzzaaacck on Apr 23, 2007 19:19:00 GMT -5
I agree matt, the thing is that for whatever reason, I actually hit a physical barrier of how fast i can move my wrist back and fourth. I really don't know why? I may be doing something wrong but I have no idea what it is. I have varied my position in all sorts of ways. I know what you mean about a physical limit.. but what im trying to explain is that the physical side of guitar playing is all in your head. you need to get your head around being able to play that fast. you've just told me that "I actually hit a physical barrier of how fast i can move my wrist back and fourth. " therefore, subconciously you actually believe that you cannot move your wrist any faster, which is not true. technically a muscle can move faster than the eye... eg, humming birds wings, dont look like theyre moving but they are, just faster than the eye can process. heres what I need you to do, first, try picking with just your thumb and index finger (forget your wrist, let it move how it wants to) pick one string, and alternate pick for 10 mins. heres the movement that you want to achieve... you use your thumb on the downpicks to push the pick into the string you use your finger on the up picks to pull the thumb back into its original position. these movements are all very small and take practice. now your warm, there are two types of movement going on when you play guitar, firstly there is finger and thumb movement which is used to pick the strings... secondly, wrist movement, which should only really be used to move from string to string. an experianced player will find that his wrist is realxed and only moves because of the momentum from the fingers. - THIS IS THE WRIST MOVEMENT WE WANT. he's concentrating on the movement of his fingers, and therefore the wrist is following. what i think could be your main problem is that you've misinterpreted the term wrist picking. what you want to achieve is more of a "twitch" than an actuall full movement.. same with your fingers. just make your hand twitch in the direction you wish to pick. try the excercise i gave you in the first post... i know it sounds like bullshit but it really does work if you give it your all. wow dude, you're the answer to my prayers. I finally got it, I'd been working my wrist picking to death and couldn't get how people got it so fast. I had been doing what you described as actual full wrist movement. After doing what you said for a day, I'm getting so much faster and cleaner. I've never seen any type of right hand picking lesson and this helped me a ton. A million thanks
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Post by mattjem7vwh on Apr 24, 2007 3:43:24 GMT -5
Incidently matt, is the type of picking you described with the thumb joint what people refer to as "circular picking?" yeah basically circle picking with a matt vibe to it I didnt want to call it circle picking because you may have looked it up on the net and got some contrasting information.. I wanted you to try it the way I described it first as I thought this would be the clincher for your problem. also, with your right hand resting too hard on the strings problem... check out one of the archive lessons on effective palm muting... get this technique down and comfortable as you may find you need to use pinkys etc as anchor points on the guitar, which will affect the position of your picking hand.
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